The Discernment Process Finally Begins
Part 4 covers the actual process taken by the CCV Elders as they make their way through the prophecies. Interviews with people named, situations that arose that appeared to indicate proof one way or another, and interviews about my gift, in general, were almost entirely done without my knowing anything about them. There was so much in these files that I knew nothing about until I read them, many years later. Other revelations came from God about the people involved, (i.e., what would happen to them, how to address them, etc), but here I’ve stuck just to the narrative of the files as they are. I can add things in the comments that are pertinent if they come up later.
I find it very interesting how the process unfolds and what can be learned about the interpretation of dreams, how to address leadership, how to find confirmation about what they say, and how to handle prophetic words within a Body.
Even going over these files to post and comment has taught me so much. Mostly, I have been encouraged to respect the Lord and how He deals with the Church, to honor it, and to take it more seriously in the future.
Note: The meticulous process of going through what I actually heard from the Lord, what I understood it to mean at the time it was given, and how I processed it afterward, has been life-changing. I deeply appreciate this time because it helped me so much not only with the revelations that came after but also in processing what others prophesy.
It was amazing to me how tempting things were to rationalize and fit into what the culture would accept. It was excruciating. It was not “headship”. Thank God I had been hearing from the Lord about yielding to His Headship as opposed to making choices that were easier for me to handle. I was still doing it through this process to some degree and so were the CCV leaders but we had the grace to make it through and hold to the core of what the Lord was revealing. Looking back I am amazed that we did.
Note: I think that it is really interesting in retrospect that only a section of the first dream was actually literal. The part where Tim Stephani and I were at CtR and they announced Jan’s death was exactly as I dreamed it. The part where Dave Lenz rushes in did not literally happen like that.
The day that Jan died I was at Bob’s for a few minutes and David (Jr.), his son, was there. When he saw me he started to cry and ran outside by a tree in Bob’s backyard. As he ran I somehow knew to help him because of this moment in the dream. I approached him and sat there awhile with him telling him memories of Jan and how great of a person she was. I think it is interesting how so many details of the dream were exactly as I dreamed them while others came in nuanced ways.
Bob was not in the service when they announced Jan’s death nor was he at the house when I went.
The part about Dave (Sr., Bill’s dad) being upset with me also happened but in pieces. These pieces were very significant because they were the foundation of the message of Headship that I was to give to Bill. It is interesting to take note of as the Body of Christ seeks to understand and mature in the use of spiritual gifts.
Also, a side fact, when I had these dreams I was living in Stockbridge about 20 miles away from Dave (Sr.). By the time it all came to pass, I was living four houses away from Dave and Lois (his sister). So I could walk Dave down dinner and sit and talk nearly every night of the week.
Note: The dream about the pictures and not being able to go to Dave’s house after they were gathered really bothered me. Dave had become a second father to me, a close friend. Being that Jan was gone, how could I ever stop going down there and being sure that they were ok? It sickened me to think that things might get so bad between us that I would actually have to cut that relationship off. I had no idea that it would be on the day of Dave’s funeral that these things would transpire and everything would change.
Note: I want to say here that the dream about Jimbo’s church was not clear. It was a sort of metaphor like dreams can be, in need of some interpretation.
Seeing Bob crying so hard over the picture books was confusing. Then to be told that I would have to ask Bill about it, but also knew that I would not be able to go where he was seemed odd and disconcerting. Jim was down on his knees by a church building that was only the foundation. So it looked as if it was blown up and only the base remained. From that, I knew he would have a church, which seemed impossible at the time, and that somehow it would fail and he would be devastated by it. But not just fail. It never was built beyond that point. That is what the dream seemed to indicate when I had it. Then walking down the driveway where Bill was and knowing that he was gone really troubled me. When I told Pastor Tim about it I was crying so hard that I had to go to the bathroom in his office building and throw up. I was watching my spiritual family implode and all I could do was stay the course and ask them, again and again, to simply repent. That a loving, holy, God was waiting for them. Shouting to call them back. But they just kept instituting these stupid meetings where men were puffed up, ignoring the Spirit of God and threatening us. It was heart-wrenching.
Note: It’s funny to me that, years later Bill suggests I included this word about Bob being comforted when he returns from New York City for some personal reason. It was about a Lenz so I added it to the documents as they transpired. I had no idea at the time what fit together in all of this and what didn’t.
But a side story here, when I told Bob this word in the Spring of 2001, he simply said that he didn’t have any trips to New York planned. But he ended up going in the first week of the following September with either one or two of his kids. It just happened to be on the anniversary of his dad’s death that they returned home. They had decided to see the towers the next day if they missed their flight, but caught it on time on the 10th. Which was the day before the towers came down. If Bob was in fact comforted by this perspective I don’t know, but the facts around this revelation are too odd to not mention and Bill does make reference to it in his written response to the prophecies.
Note: During this time I am being told nothing about this discernment process, just that there is one happening. I have no clue most of it is even going on and am completely oblivious to this file being made. In April of 2005, I have a vision and am told details about the process from the Lord. He tells me to have Tim Snell and an assistant come to my house to film me seeing an angel. Have the assistant snap a pic with a screen on the back of her camera. Have Tim then zoom in to see the orb that shows up. When this happens, Tim is supposed to go to Greg Sampson’s house and film his responses to questions asked about Bill, Ben, and the prophecies. This time he will tell everything and will be forthright.
I was not aware that previously Greg was refusing to speak with Tim about CtR because he had been made to sign a nondisclosure agreement, in order to receive severance pay. So when Tim came over and the angel appeared and we actually had it on film he went over to Greg’s immediately. Greg invited him in and allowed the conversation to be recorded.
The CCV Elders decided to destroy this video after they watched it. I still can not believe they dared to do that after the Lord said it would be for the public. But Tim did take detailed notes and they appear later in this post.
As you read through this timeline, keep in mind that the prophecies about sin hitting the children were given and documented years before the situation with Ben even happened. The prophecies about Greg Sampson leaving and going without Bill’s blessing were recorded years before it happens. There is no possible way anyone could have remotely guessed that Ben would have sex with a minor, that he would then months later go for a job that Greg Sampson developed and wanted. That Bill would not tell people in leadership and have them “vote” to put Ben in that very position. That Greg would leave and then come clean to Tim! Think about how many details were foretold that needed to happen to fit this storyline accurately! This is just amazing when you think about it.
In retrospect, the people being mentioned become the very example of Bill putting someone in ministry who is obviously no longer qualified (Ben) and taking someone out of ministry (Greg) that the Lord had been using all along. The documents were not made after picking and choosing certain facts after things unfolded. They were developed as we went along. I have dated emails with all of this in them. As I go back through this, the way these things unfolded is mind-boggling!!! This story is an obvious set of miracles that the Lord was laying out and moving along in a system that was built to be able to quickly kill it. But it just kept going on and on and even today is still moving forward. As you read, I am hoping that you are asking yourself why and to what end.
Note: Look carefully at I(D). Elder Chema Paba and Elder Don Nichols are bold-faced lying here. They both are keenly aware that Al Rockman is sitting here completely unaware that Ben ever did anything inappropriate with the girl from the youth group right before he is given Greg Sampson’s desired position. They both know and admit it in the next leaders meeting on September 26th, posted below.
So many of these statements that the CtR Elders are making are simply false.
- Douglas was hired as the Pastor of Visitation and he decided to quit and move back to North Carolina. John Keiffer had nothing to do with it.
- I never said that I heard from the Lord about being on staff, nor did I want to be. The situation with Dave Vandehey was too uncomfortable.
- The thought of being on staff or attending the Green Bay church had never occurred to us. Nor would we have wanted to. We never approached Jim about it.
In section IV. that process was not in place when Douglas was hired. We met with Bill and Janet three times and Doug was offered the job.
Note: Number 4. Greg mentions Warren’s M’s. I think he means Rick Warren’s model in ‘Purpose Driven Church’, called the ‘5Ms’: Magnification, Membership, Maturity, Ministry, and Mission. In Warren’s scheme they are marked on a baseball diamond, with Magnification at the center, and the other four as consecutive bases.
Note: This was also a miracle!!! So the CtR Elders claimed that it was actually Dave Lenz that did not want me at his house. They also claimed that I was a problem for them, not really wanted over at the Lenz house. I was shocked by these accusations but had no idea how to refute them.
One evening shortly after the meeting with the CtR Elders, I was going through my closet and wondered what a bag of papers was doing there. When I looked inside it was full of letters from the Lenz family while I was at Teen Challenge Ministry Institute in CA from 1983!!! This was decades later and I had no memory of this bag. And here it was in my closet!! I must have gotten a box from my parent’s basement when they moved and thought I would save this bag to go through later. It was full of letters. And not just letters from Jan and Jimbo but loving notes from Dave (Bill’s father) also. It was nothing short of amazing how the Lord kept providing me with exactly what I needed to refute these lies.
Note: I(E). I was told when this girl was 15, just about to turn 16, that she was trying to end the relationship and that leadership knew about it.
IV(B). God cares about the sin in the Church. He uses the gift of prophecy to call back people from dangerous sin when they refuse to hear. Let letter B. and their own admission be a warning and a wake-up call. I mean come on!
I also want to highlight how many times spiritual gifts are being used by the Lord and covered up by the church.
2. Greg reads a statement saying he will not start a church and he is doing this in response to my email. As I understood it at the time, Greg was asked to read a statement to the Body that would make my prophecy sound false, not true, regarding him leaving and starting a church. I find it astounding how far these leaders were going to try to prove these prophecies false as they unfolded. (As I write this, I think that it was Greg himself that called me shortly after we spoke and told me he was going to tell the Body this even though it contradicted what he had said to me).
Note: II(I). Here I want to be clear about something very important. A number of times the Lord spoke directly about local leaders that were circling the wagons around Bill. I say circling the wagons but the Lord called it “building and overpass to the cross” for Bill. He was consistently speaking about this. He called leaders out by name. I won’t go into it here but if you are curious and want information about it I can send prophecies or emails discussing them, etc. You can ask in the comments. But I want to say here that leaders were actively trying to shut me and these prophecies down when they knew Bill was sinning in significant ways. This is frightening to me. This is an example of how the Church failed. How all of the checks and balances put in place by the Lord and spelled out in His word were thrown aside. Were systemically thrown aside. The system has to be exposed so it can be repented of and others are afraid to sin in this way. (See Timothy 5:20)
It is what God is doing in many places in the Western Churches. You can see it in the news these days time and time again. He is exposing this man-made way of doing Church. And it’s time for it to go. It is time to do life and ministry and work His way. It is time for the Church to recalibrate to the headship of Jesus Christ.